Got Mail

I'm up early this morning because I had a nightmare that woke me up: Mobius had written a post called "American Bigot."

First thing, I checked my mail and it includes some comments to various posts. This one is from Charles (not Johnson) in response to my first Challenge post.

Um.... a few things.
1. Ruby K is a man, not a woman.
2. He didn't write the article you are quoting. It was me.
3. We can't name politicians who are muzzling themselves. That's because they are muzzling themselves. But we can name ex-politicians who have openly discussed this issue. Carter is one, but there are others. Check out the Council for the National Interest, talk to Wesley Clark, or read MJ Rosenberg's parsing of Obama's speech to AIPAC. In each case, we have evidence of views being muted, muzzled or denied out of fear. At least have the guts to be proud that the AIPAC strategy sort of works. Unless.... there's a fear that soon it won't any more....

Talk about an alternate universe. Ruby is a man. Okey-dokey, Charles, sorry for the mixup.

Now forgive me for not understanding at first glance, but are you saying that Carter's views have been "muted, muzzled or denied"? And you have "evidence"? When do we get to see it?

Also, for the sake of clarification, are you saying that the Council for the National Interest has been "muted, muzzled or denied"? I remember them. They took out a full-page anti-Israel ad in the New York Times one Christmas Eve. We are left to wonder how it got past the AIPAC censors.

I also remember that CNI published some "FAQs" on their website about Israel's "disengagement" from Gaza, written by Diana Buttu (legal advisor, media advisor and spokesperson for the Palestinian Authority). It stands out in my memory that she said the PA's Ministry of Planning was going to build hospitals, schools, housing projects and "tourist locations" in the areas evacuated by Israel. Do you happen to know how that's going? I know Hamas has been doing some recycling there and planning a museum, but I haven't heard anything about any new hospitals or housing projects. I assume the tourism idea never got past Shimon Peres.

Back to Ruby, Um... Charles. I realize that many Brave Critics of Israel, some of them quite prominent, have proffered accusations that AIPAC (and or a construct called The Israel Lobby, which is thought to contain and exceed AIPAC) somehow censors (i.e. muzzles and mutes) criticism of Israel.

While Carter, the CNI (and its related foundation), Wesley Clark and MJ Rosenberg are among those who have made these accusations, here at BtB it's not considered acceptable evidence to simply list people who "say so." Because, sadly, what they're saying may not be true. What I want to know is not if it's been said - I know that it has - what I want to know is if it's true.

Maybe now it's considered old-fashioned (like families consisting of a mommy, a daddy and their children) but I still care about the truth. Ruby and Charles are probably not old enough to remember, but an American president named Abraham Lincoln once said, "Truth is generally the best vindication against slander."

I stand with Abe. So if you've got any real evidence to support your repugnant slander, produce it already.

Or STFU.

Comments

[Jai]

I want to correct your inclusion of Wes Clark in your list of "those who have made these accusations" that AIPAC or the "Isreal Lobby" have muzzled or silenced anyone. I don't know about the others, but Clark has never said anything of the kind. In fact, just the opposite: In a letter published in Forward magazine on-line, Clark expressly laid blame on "conspiracy theorists" who claim that Israel and the Jews control US policy and are responsible for the war in Iraq. But I don't think you're being intellectually honest if you don't think that the way Clark was targetted by Republicans served to discourage other people with political aspirations to muzzle themselves. The GOP's Jewish Council took out prominent ads in every major Jewish paper around the nation, quoting Clark completely out of context, and making him sound like an anti-Semite when in fact he has been a vociferous defender of Israel for years. Now, they did it to damage Clark with our community because he is an influential and credible Democrat who has been advising Congressional Democrats in their opposition to Bush administration foreign policy. And because he may yet run for president. But you need some sort of blinders to miss how discourse on US Middle East policy was adversely affected.

[sultan knish]

Clark's "New York Money" line very clearly pays into the Jewish control of D.C. conspiracy theories in coded language

[Jai]

Nonsense. Most NYers with money aren't Jewish. In fact, most neocons in NY with money are not Jewish either. You think Clark doesn't know that? He works for a Wall Street firm, and as a senior military officer, he knows who in the defense industry profits from the war in Iraq and the threat of war with Iran. Clark doesn't talk in code, and he is not anti-Semitic.

[sultan knish]

New York Money has been a commonplace code for bigots to imply jewish control And when Clark was talking about New York Money in relation to Israel, it's impossible to deny what he meant And the defense industry isn't particularly based in New York Finally while earlier Clark had played up to Jews, in the last year or so he's come out increasingly Anti-Israel because he's trying to play up to the party's left

[Jai]

Of course the industry isn't based in New York, but all the investments in it are run from Wall Street. Just like investment in every other industry. Duh. Look, I live in KS and I know that most people around these parts (not far from where Clark grew up, btw) think NY money means NY money. Not Jews. As for whether Clark changed to appeal to the left, then how come he defended Israel's right to attack Lebanon last summer? And her right to bomb Syria in Oct 03, right when he was in the middle of a campaign where he needed to appeal to the left most. Shoot, even Abe Foxman said Clark is "a good friend of Israel and not an anti-Semite." Foxman is not easy to convince. You don't know what you're talking about. Clark's father was Jewish, and he is close to his father's family in Chicago. This is not a self-hating Jew, but a good and worthy son of our people. It's a terrible loss that Clark's father died when he was so young and the boy was essentially lost to us, but it is stupid and wrong for us to treat him so unjustly.

[sultan knish]

Actually he turned on Israel and said that the Lebanon war was wrong and that he wouldn't have allowed it. The New York money specifically referenced the Jewish community. Clark is not a proud son of the Jewish people, anymore than Goldwater or Senator Cohen or Caspar Weinberger or Madeline Albright. List goes on.